More Presbyterian “Rev” John Shuck: Why He’s Not Saved & Why He’s a Minister Anyway
I recently wrote a piece on Clergy Letter signer and Evolution Sunday celebrant, “Rev” John Shuck in which I examined many of the statements off his website. Not content to misrepresent him, I went over to his website and asked him directly whether he realized that there was a link between affirmation of evolution and a loss of faith. Recalling an email conversation with atheist Dr Michael Zimmerman wherein I asked him if the signers of his pro-evolution Clergy Letter could even affirm basic Christian beliefs, I also asked him whether he could affirm the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ. Shuck’s response revealed that that there is [at least] one Clergy Letter signature that confirms my worst suspicions regarding the type of “clergy” which might sign Zimmerman’s letter and actually celebrate evolution from our pulpits with a special service:
revTony: Are you completely unaware that evolution leads to apostasy? Or are you suffering from the whole frog in a kettle syndrome?
Let me ask you a direct question, “Clergy” Letter signer: Do you believe in the physical, bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ?
Rev Tony Breeden
John Shuck: Are you completely unaware that evolution leads to apostasy?
Or are you suffering from the whole frog in a kettle syndrome?
Do you believe in the physical, bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ?
Have a nice Darwinmas!”
revTony: “John Shuck,
If what your response to my comments were honest, you’re ordination and office are a farce, for you are not even a Christian if you do not affirm the physical, bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ [per Romans 10:9].
Your own evident lack of faith in core Christian beliefs is symptomatic of the link between faith in evolution and religious unbelief. Might I suggest you read Already Gone by Ken Ham & Britt Beemer? I know you have no love for Mr Ham, but unless you are prepared to arbitrarily accuse him of lying, the statistics he presents in this book should convince all but the most heretical liberal of the link between evolution and loss of faith.
Rev Tony Breeden
John Shuck: “@Tony
the link between evolution and loss of faith
Science has a way of undoing superstition. May the loss of “faith” continue!”
revTony: “”Rev” Shuck,
Your glib attitude toward the fate of men’s souls is unbeffitting a true minister of the Gospel. You do realize that when I speak of loss of faith that I am in no way refering to a loss of superstitious belief. Rather I am talking about people abandoning all Christian belief and going to an eternal hell!
If that doesn’t bother you [and it should since that is your destination is you don't get saved, friend], you’ve no business pretending you care at all about the flock you illegitimately tend.
For the record, I do not deny science; merely the erroneous evolutionary interpretations of some of that science. To conflate science and evolution is to commit the logical fallacy of equivocation. Would that your commitment to reason and the Cross matched your devotion to evolution and leftist political agendas! Clearly you’re nothing more than a wolf in sheep’s clothing.
How can you escape the damnation of hell?
Rev Tony Breeden
John Shuck: “I am in no way refering to a loss of superstitious belief. Rather I am talking about people abandoning all Christian belief and going to an eternal hell!
And that’s not superstition?
Well you have been a barrel of laughs. I am pleased you commented here. It is always good to be reminded with whom we are dealing.
You can move along now.
You know, Tony, it is polite that when you do a post on someone to at least let them know?
Ah well, carry on…
revTony: “It is polite but not mandatory. Nevertheless I included a link to my site in every post so that you would have the opportunity to see exactly who you were dealing with before you responded to me. Frankly, given the rather flippant tone of some of your responses, I was under the impression that you had already seen the post in question.
You’re everything I expected when I asked Dr Zimmerman a year or so ago whether any of his alleged clergy on his Clergy Letter could actually affirm basic Christian beliefs. You cannot and you are even proud of your unbelief.
Unfortunately for Zimmerman you serve as a prime example of why his Clergy Letter is simply crap. Rather than being Christians from many different traditions, those who’ve signed their names appear to be liberals who’ve long ago abandoned Christianity in all but name. Worse still, if they cannot affirm the bodily resurrection of our Lord, they’re unsaved and headed for hell… like you.
Yet you seem completely unconcerned about your own eternal salvation.
I pray God grants you repentance.
Rev Tony Breeden
John Shuck: “Your god doesn’t exist, my friend, nor does his hell. So I am not afraid for my “eternal salvation.” I do pity you for believing outrageous fairy tales and cruel ones at that. I hope you will repent as well and stop spreading fear and ignorance.
Are you actually stating that you don’t believe that people need to be saved? That there is no heaven or hell? That Jesus died for nothing of eternal consequence?
Why did you become a minister if not to preach the Gospel? Does the PCUSA know you have these beliefs and convictions [or lack thereof]??
Of course, he didn’t reply to my last question. Instead, he decided to ban me from his site for “emotional abuse.” [It appears he can dish it out but...]
I did a little bit of further digging, trying to ascertain why exactly he remained a minister since he does not ascribe to the faith. Surely his integrity [yes, unbelievers are sometimes afflicted with this trait as well as Christians] would force him to resign, right?
What I discovered is that John Shuck is a militant liberal who hopes to subvert the church. He’s not saved and he’s only in the Presbyterian denomination to undermine their efforts. So why hasn’t he been removed or censured by his presbytery [Holston Presbytery], who simply respond to each protest of outrage by saying that Shuck “is a minister in good standing??” Since Shuck is a member of the leadership of his presbytery, why haven’t those higher up within the denomination taken that presbytery to task for protecting him and allowing him to continue to preach blasphemy and undisguised heresy? Would they allow a Wiccan in their pulpits? A Satanist? What other devils do they call “ministers in good standing?” You would not be judged in this matter if you judged yourselves.
First, let me underscore an important point. He’s not saved. One of the requirements of saving faith is a belief in your heart that God raised Christ from the dead [Romans 10:9; I Corinthians 15:12-18]. Another requirement is a belief in a supernatural God. He’s unrepentant and mocking of the faith.
Commenting on Roy Hoover’s essay in the Fourth R, Tradition and Faith In a New Era [wherein Hoover laments: "Those who insist upon the unaltered retention of traditional forms of religious understanding and language and who retreat from the challenge posed by the actual world after Galileo want to direct the Christian community into the confines of a sacred grotto, an enclosed, religiously defined world that is brought completely under the control of scripture and tradition; and they want to turn the ordained clergy into antiquities dealers."], Shuck declares in an Easter 2010 post called “A Church Without God”:
“Don’t let them. Don’t give up without a fight.
We are facing huge changes. Our universe is 13.7 billion years old as of the latest tally. Human beings have evolved as has every species on this beautiful blue ball. We were not placed in any garden by any divine being. No god/man came to Earth, walked on water, rose from the dead and sits on a heavenly throne. That is religious fiction. It is metaphor, story, myth, human invention. It is how our ancestors tried to find meaning. Bless their hearts.
As we are in a period of transition we will wrestle with our inherited language. For some, the term “God” will have meaning. For others it will not. Religion is moving away from its supernaturalistic roots. “God” will be redefined accordingly. We are in the process of redefining meaning. “
No one with these views on God or Jesus could ever be considered anything but a rank unbeliever! Why does the PCUSA allow this wolf to remain over one of their flocks? [And, yes, those above him must give an account before God for why they allow Shuck to remain without so much as a rebuke.]
I think the Presbyterian Church USA is a little concerned that they’ll make a martyr of him if they remove him from his pulpit. He’s ceratinly itching for a fight:
“It could and likely will get ugly. Those who cling to their superstitions will be ruthless. There will be inquisitions. There will be heresy trials…. My advice for clergy and for laypeople who are growing out of a childish supernaturalistic past is to stand your ground. Don’t let them set the terms or the rules. Don’t resign.”
But those above him need to remember Jesus’ warning that a little leaven leavens the whole lump. His congregation beleives he represents a more authentic Christianity. Will they wait until rank unbelievers supplant the faithful? Frogs in a kettle!
I pray the Presbyterian Church finds its boldness and reaffirms its commitment to holiness to the Lord by ousting this wolf from the flock of God.
I also pray that people will remember that those who affirm the Clergy Letter, by and large are unbelievers like John Shuck: hypocrites with a subversive agenda. So when Zimmerman or other evolution enforcement advocates try to use the Clergy Letter to try to convince school boards that there is no conflict between authentic Christianity and evolution, remember that his entire project is a scam. He doesn’t care whether these guys really believe the basics of the Christian faith. Zimmerman is an atheist who only cares that his signators profess some allegiance to Christianity – Since he only wants to use it as a weapon to force the exclusive teaching of evolution is schools by attempting to negate the argument that evolution leads to loss of faith, he doesn’t care whether any of the signatures are from real Christians so long as he can give other people the impression that they are.
Don’t buy it. The truth is that kids who are indoctrinated in an uncritical, rosy view of evolution as scientific truth mostly go on to reject religious truth wholesale. As I mentioned in my last post, Shuck admits that his loss of faith was influenced by the evolutionary propaganda he swallowed in school: “As a kid I was bugged by this end of time idea, as well as evolution. It didn’t coincide with what I was learning in science and history classes, and I decided that this religion is not working well.” And just look where he is today?
Arm yourselves with the truth.
More information is available here: Ex-Christians: The Evolution Factor and in Ken Ham’s excellent book, Already Gone: Why Your Kids Will Quit Church & What You Can Do About It!
And may I suggest that instea dof celebrating an Evolution Sunday this year, celebrate a Creation Sunday this Feb 13, 2010 instead. You can view and add a Creation Sunday event in your area at http://creationsunday.wordpress.com